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Tali
05-21-2009, 03:55 PM
I would like to know if you recomend me to try the back tension realeases to improve my shooting. Or if I am doing pretty well it does not worth.

I suppose i will learn to shoot better, always triying to improve!!!, but do not have clear if use a back tension realease, or a back tension thumb release.. Wich model will you recomend me??

I am now shooting with a truball pro diamond T handle.

By the way, i mostly hunt, ocasonally shoot 3d targets to meet some friends.

Thank you very much!!!

L-train
05-21-2009, 04:56 PM
Any release can be shot with "back tension", it is a method of activating a release not style of releases. Typically hinged, spike, holding weight (evolution) are considered "back tension" releases, but they can be punched just like a index finger release. The key is going thru the process(descibed best by Griv{see thread on EAF here}) of learning to allow the pin to stay on target as the back muscles pull subconciously thru the shot...AKA suprise release. Its a big commitment but worth it IMO.

woodbooger
05-21-2009, 05:50 PM
shooting a true back tension release has no trigger and is set off by pulling through the shoot or rotating the release while constantly pulling! L-train is correct any release can be shot with back tension.this is to make release fire without fingering the trigger be it thumb or index.carter makes a release called evolution has no trigger you set holding weight! draw bow holding peg when you come to full draw you release peg then pull while aiming which increases holding weight and fire's release great training tool! being able to shoot with back tension will no doubt make you a better shooter its all about aiming shooting with back tension takes 1 more thing out of shot equation! don't have to think about triggering release just aim and pull!! I would say that most of your professional archers shoot with back tension no matter what release they use

Tali
05-21-2009, 05:53 PM
I know every release can be shoot with the back tension technique, the thing is that my release is not so sensitive and I am having problems trying to shoot with the back. It seem that it doesnt matter what I do that at the end I have to puch the triger if I want the arrow to go out.

I tried a few moth before of of those "backtension" releases, and i just close the hand a bit as I strecthed the back muscle and the arrow was fliying to the target!.Quite a diferent sensation than with mine.

Could you tell me where is that theme, I cant find it. Thanks for your advice.!!

L-train
05-21-2009, 05:57 PM
Search archery talk for Grivs target panic thread, I cant get on there sooo....

Also get the book "core archery" by Larry Wise, its a excellent reference.

Also make sure your draw length isnt too long its tough to pull thru proper if your already stretched out, and adjust your index trigger very deep into your fingers to create a rigid hook with your hand/finger, then relax and pull with back tension.

superdiablo
05-21-2009, 06:03 PM
There is no doubt in my records, it will improve your shooting abilities. But be prepared to work hard, and probably at the begining you should consider a good coach or skilled archer by your side to easy your learning curve.
I would recommend a Zenith and/or Loesch (sort of a Carter Evolution type of release but more consistant in the way it brakes the shot) but if you are not a crazy spottie like me, almost anyone would work. As Lonnie sayes, it is not the type of release what matters most but the commitment to shoot a strong dynamic one each and every arrow no matter how steady the pin is, and eventually it will steady more and more as a side effect of you not paying main attention to aiming but working on your form, in a smooth but powerful way.
Good luck, work hard and stay active inside the shot :luck:!
Keep us posted with your progress.
Javier Martinez

2xR
05-21-2009, 06:07 PM
Try this post (Griv):

http://www.elitearchery.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17160

L-train
05-21-2009, 06:11 PM
There is no doubt in my records, it will improve your shooting abilities. But be prepared to work hard, and probably at the begining you should consider a good coach or skilled archer by your side to easy your learning curve.
I would recommend a Zenith and/or Loesch (sort of a Carter Evolution type of release but more consistant in the way it brakes the shot) but if you are not a crazy spottie like me, almost anyone would work. As Lonnie sayes, it is not the type of release what matters most but the commitment to shoot a strong dynamic one each and every arrow no matter how steady the pin is, and eventually it will steady more and more as a side effect of you not paying main attention to aiming but working on your form, in a smooth but powerful way.
Good luck, work hard and stay active inside the shot :luck:!
Keep us posted with your progress.
Javier Martinez
Very good stuff Javier that part in Bold is soooo good!

superdiablo
05-21-2009, 06:25 PM
Thanks Lonnie, I am talking from the heart and really can feel it inside of me even if I am typing now! I sincerely believe it is something like what I described.
By the way, how to bold the quotes?

TMax27
05-22-2009, 10:43 AM
I am in the process of learning "back tension" with a thumb trigger. I am getting good at allow my back to tighten up as I loosen the index/middle fingers, thus allow positive tension with my thumb, suprising a release.

WOW, that a ballet of thoughts. Smooth and methodic.

Daniel Boone
05-22-2009, 11:30 AM
Very popular with the top pros today.

Good article in the new tournament archery magazine from Nathan Brooks on this subject.

Nathan shoots a Scott

http://www.scottarchery.com/products/cat-longhorn.tpl

Nampom
05-22-2009, 11:59 AM
I had target panic about 4 years ago, I was able to turn it around by having great coaching and going over to a back tension release (Spike) from Carter to start with and alot of practise. It took some time, but today I enjoy shooting again and shoot 100 % better than I did.
Yes every now and again I catch myself punching the thumb release, but have alot more better days than bad.
Good luck with going to back tension, at the end of the day you'll wonder why you did not do it sooner.

superdiablo
05-22-2009, 12:28 PM
I am in the process of learning "back tension" with a thumb trigger. I am getting good at allow my back to tighten up as I loosen the index/middle fingers, thus allow positive tension with my thumb, suprising a release.

WOW, that a ballet of thoughts. Smooth and methodic.

I wouldnīt recommend you to "loose" any fingers to activate the release, but everyone is different. This concept of loosing some part of your body is off the main thing, smooth but powerful increasing the dynamic tension on your back should activate the release, not changing its relative position inside your hand. You might develop some short of punching or TP I am afraid. This is my humble opinion based on personal experience, take it as it!
Before (and after, a number of shots through the true BT is a nature marvel!)the thumb triggered release, I hardly would recommend you to run a high number of shots through a Zenith or Carter or TruBall or Scott without any kind of safety systems; tune them not to shoot with easy ("long travel") and work the shot until you feel its being distorted to make the release fire. Very slowly proceed to shorten in small bits the travel of the release until it starts to fire into the "good work" or "comfort" zone of your push/pull time inside your routine. You will really feel when you are working properly! You should be able at the appropiate time, to shoot it just increasing your mental intensity or commitment to burn the X.
Sorry for the long post, hope it helps.
Javier martinez

Daniel Boone
05-22-2009, 12:40 PM
Eric Griggs, Nathan Brooks and Chance all shoot there like this. I watch them demostrate it one year at an ASA. This is just three pros explanation on how to shoot BT.

To start with let me say that I strongly recomend setting a triggerless bt release with a good bit of travel. No disrespect to anyone who is successfull with a trigerless bt release and doesn't shoot this way, but I would say that virtually everyone at the top who is using a pure bt release is shooting it with travel. And...If your shooting it with travel you can not fire the release off back tension alone. You have to maintain back tension and that's important, but moving your hand and fingers is what makes that thing fire. The travel is important because it makes you stay active in the shot. You always keep pulling regardless of what the sight is doing. With a good bit of travel anticipation becomes a non-factor as well. For everyone who is shooting there release on the edge or have shot this in the past ask yourself this question. How many times have you been tenative with your release or had a hard time firing it in a pressure situation? Unless your lying to yourself this has happened to everyone who has shot a triggerless bt release set up light or with the clicker. Not to say it can't happen when you set them up with travel, but you know that you have to get after the release to make it fire so it forces you to be aggressive. I'll give you a great example of this. Nathan Brooks was in the shootoff in Vegas last year and let down after holding for a really long time. He got rid of the release in his hand and got a different one. After the fact I asked him what the deal was and he said he switched to a HEAVIER release. I was suprised at first, but when he explained it to me it made perfect sense. He was having problems getting it to fire and he knew once he swithed to something with even more travel that it would force him to be aggressive to get the release to fire. I know that this isn't going to work for everyone, but the topic came up so I figured I would add my thoughts.

Here Nathan shoot a BT release

Video click on this link

http://s194.photobucket.com/albums/z289/okiebwhtr/Archers/?action=view&current=2b1bc005.flv

Darrin Christenberry shooting a BT release

Video

http://s194.photobucket.com/albums/z289/okiebwhtr/Archers/?action=view&current=Picture239.flv

Chris Hacker

Video

http://s194.photobucket.com/albums/z289/okiebwhtr/Archers/?action=view&current=Picture156.flv

TMax27
05-22-2009, 01:13 PM
Superdiablo,

this paragraph is what I am trying to emulate.
When you are shooting the loop, learn to relax your release hand through the releasing process. Here’s how it works. While you have the shooting loop at full draw, develop tension in the loop. Wrap your finger around the trigger or set your fingers on the triggerless release deeply and pull against the loop. You should feel the pressure building against the pads of your fingers. As that pressure builds allow your index and middle fingers to yield against the pressure. It will be almost as if your fingers are relaxing out of the release. This yielding creates a transfer of power from the finger beds to your trigger finger applying pressure to the button causing it to fire on its own time. If you are shooting a Stan, the pressure will transfer from your index finger to your third or fourth finger causing the release to pivot enough to fire. NOTE: when this is done correctly, someone watching will barely notice a change or any movement. It is more of a power transfer than a movement.

This is from George Ryals.

superdiablo
05-22-2009, 02:10 PM
Tmax,
I know what George Ryals IV explains, and it works/feel very simmilar in my case; besides he is a real authority, so be it.
What I would encourage you to look at is not to do this relaxing/transfering thing on purpose, it will happen eventually. If you try to focus in "doing this", you might end punching the release. The objective is not that, donīt read the paragraph alone; It is more a side result than an objective in itself I think. It is difficult for me to explain in your language though; It is very important the part where he sayes that there is no noticeable movement in the fingers, more a"different pressure thing", He means, I think, that you shouldnīt move your fingers to activate it.
Work hard and enjoy it!

TMax27
05-22-2009, 02:15 PM
Super, I think I understand where you are coming from. Definately alot of work for me ahead.

superdiablo
05-22-2009, 06:40 PM
Super, I think I understand where you are coming from. Definately alot of work for me ahead.

Yes, but really worthy to do. You will learn a lot of yourself and the essence of shooting on the way, so enjoy your work!

TMax27
05-23-2009, 12:37 PM
Just came in from my first "lesson". Another Elite shooter stopped by and gave me some pointers and watched me shoot 70 or 80 shots from close range. My hands got tired, since this was the first time actually shooting the bow with the release. All this week I have been using a practice band/string to work on back tension. We adjusted my release a little and helped me even more. I still have alot of work to do, but I feel I am well on my way. Switching from a wrist strap, to thumb trigger release is gonna help me tremendously. I will indeed have to work on relaxing and allowing back tension to squeeze into the trigger.

superdiablo
05-23-2009, 07:01 PM
Just came in from my first "lesson". Another Elite shooter stopped by and gave me some pointers and watched me shoot 70 or 80 shots from close range. My hands got tired, since this was the first time actually shooting the bow with the release. All this week I have been using a practice band/string to work on back tension. We adjusted my release a little and helped me even more. I still have alot of work to do, but I feel I am well on my way. Switching from a wrist strap, to thumb trigger release is gonna help me tremendously. I will indeed have to work on relaxing and allowing back tension to squeeze into the trigger.


That is a very good resume!
You will be more tired now, but it teachs you that, before, your shots probably were not that strong or committed, so your new route is better. Keep the good work and you will be possitively surprised in a couple or three months. Don't allow your trigger fingers to yield on the increasing back tension!
Keep us updated on your sure to happen progress.
Javier Martinez

TMax27
05-23-2009, 11:36 PM
Thanks Javier!!!

Tali
05-25-2009, 05:07 AM
Thanks for the info, I am gonna try it for sure.

There are thousand releases to choose from, wich exact model would you recomend me? I want one that fits also my truball pro diamond that I use for hunting. Since I only bowhunt, do not want to change all my form of my hunting release.

Thanks!

superdiablo
05-25-2009, 12:10 PM
I would look into any of the same brand models, probably their shape is going to be the most simmilar to what you are used to. Drop Truball an email regarding your wishes, they will know for sure which "true BT" model in their lineup will make you happy.
Other than that, I trust and like my Zenith brass models and Scott Longhorn a lot, but I personally donīt know the Truball.
Hope it helps,
Javier Martinez

hoody123
05-25-2009, 12:58 PM
I still shoot an original blue four finger Stan with a DLoop head attachment. Thing has definitely had TENs of thousands (if not HuNDRED Thousand) plus shots through it and is still going strong. Right at the end of last season I picked up a couple of different Scott Longhorns and I'm going to play with them. Although, I'm not sure they'll do what I want. (totally a personal preference thing, I'm 100% convinced that their mechanism is sound, I'm just not sure that I like how they fit my hand and face...)

L-train
05-25-2009, 01:14 PM
It might not be feasible, you bein in spain and all, but a couple yrs ago I went on a buy/sell spree for used "BT" releases, probably tried a dozen different models. Hand held releases are like shoes, they all fit each of us different so, its a must try to know thing. For me the scott longhorn fit good, the truball BT golds, stans, and carters didnt, zenith was pretty good and finally Ideal spike heads were the ticket.
If ya got some buddies with them see if ya can try them.

superdiablo
05-25-2009, 05:35 PM
Exactly Lonnie, they must fir your hand perfectly, like a good ole used shoe or glove, this is one of the reasons why I like Zenith brass as much, I worked them to my personal fist fit!