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Thread: I just spoke to Elite about BCY 8190 and was told by Technical Support that

  1. #11
    Senior Member Eight Point Pulse76's Avatar
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    Just playing devil's advocate here. How would they know if you ever had the bcy8190 strings on your bow? Not condoning this, but one could run 8190 strings on their bow for a couple of years and then put the stock ones back on and sell the bow that way. How would they ever know the difference? Maybe I just think too much.

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    Respected Member Ten Point Perry24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eltaco View Post
    I think the question that needs to be asked is: What advantages make 8190 a worthwhile choice over 452x? I think performance is ALMOST dead nuts equal, so take that out of the equation. Then it just comes down to appearance, longevity, and resistance to stretch. From what I've seen, peep rotation is a non-issue with properly built strings for both material, so that too is removed from the equation. Unless I'm missing something, all that is left is appearance and longevity. IMHO, the 8190 is a better 'looking' material than 452x. I can't answer the longevity question since I've only had mine on for a month or so.

    So basically, it comes down to appearance and longevity vs. potentially losing a warranty. I'm not certain that those two items justify potentially compromising a warranty, but that's just my opinion. If warranty was a non-issue, I'd personally choose 8190 just for appearance right now, but until I have a few thousand more shots on them, I can't say if it lasts as long, or not.
    Are the colors on 8190 that much more vivid than 452X?
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  3. #13
    Respected Member Ten Point Stag BlindBuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twisted Archer View Post
    I was told on the 8190 that it had to be 26 strands so yes BlindBuck it won't make much of a difference speed wise, they want the same diameter from what I was told. I am waiting to hear what other materials are given the go ahead and the strand counts, since I don't stock Brownell the rest of the materials won't be much help to me but I will still let everyone know as soon as I do.
    Well that bites, IMHO the 24 strand count of 452x is a bit thick for the cam tracks especially when using flo/bright colors. IMHO that was biggest benefit if one would want a set of strings made with 8190, I don't really care about the speed difference having a 30+" DL it is always there for me anyway. The 8190 set I checked out also appeared to have produced a much rounder bundle when using 24 strands. In any event I am anxious for my 8190 material to show up so I can make a few sets to play with.



    Quote Originally Posted by Pulse76 View Post
    Just playing devil's advocate here. How would they know if you ever had the bcy8190 strings on your bow? Not condoning this, but one could run 8190 strings on their bow for a couple of years and then put the stock ones back on and sell the bow that way. How would they ever know the difference? Maybe I just think too much.
    They can't.....just like you stated don't condone doing it by any means but there isn't a way to say yep BCY8190 24 thread count caused that problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perry24 View Post
    Are the colors on 8190 that much more vivid than 452X?
    Yes sir compared spool colors at Lancaster and they definitely pop more, course I order it from my regular supplier since I despise LAS.lol

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    Moderator Stag Maybee-R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlindBuck View Post
    Well that bites, IMHO the 24 strand count of 452x is a bit thick for the cam tracks especially when using flo/bright colors. IMHO that was biggest benefit if one would want a set of strings made with 8190, I don't really care about the speed difference having a 30+" DL it is always there for me anyway. The 8190 set I checked out also appeared to have produced a much rounder bundle when using 24 strands. In any event I am anxious for my 8190 material to show up so I can make a few sets to play with.





    They can't.....just like you stated don't condone doing it by any means but there isn't a way to say yep BCY8190 24 thread count caused that problem.



    Yes sir compared spool colors at Lancaster and they definitely pop more, course I order it from my regular supplier since I despise LAS.lol
    Only one time in my life did a string cause damage to a bow. It wasnt the material or strand count either. It was poorly made and come undone at full draw.
    My self I pretty much do what I want with my bows. I warranty my own if I have too.
    I would keep the strand count for stability only. If I could get 20 or 22 to hold I agree it sits in the cam groves better with less wear. But stability and speeds drop when I try it.
    No ifs and or buts Just maybee.

  5. #15
    Respected Member Ten Point Stag BlindBuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybee-R View Post
    Only one time in my life did a string cause damage to a bow. It wasnt the material or strand count either. It was poorly made and come undone at full draw.
    My self I pretty much do what I want with my bows. I warranty my own if I have too.
    I would keep the strand count for stability only. If I could get 20 or 22 to hold I agree it sits in the cam groves better with less wear. But stability and speeds drop when I try it.
    Agree on everything you stated Rick, it is things I read like below that made me want to try and experiment with 8190 for myself. Heck it is my own OCD that made me want to build my own threads in the first place.lol If Elite's stance is 26 strands.....it is what it is, I just think they are limiting their customers benefits on what appears to be a great new option.

    “8190 is the bomb! I am switching all my material over to it. The only way I will make 452x is if someone asks for it. More durable, alittle faster, bright colors, no frying, give it a try you won't be disaapointed! Tim Zim”

    “i have been playing with 8190 a lot the past couple months..and so far really like it..all 24 strands holds like a rock..i was skeptical about it at first but after watching it in a 500pd stretcher hooked to a load cell for 12 hrs..it really suprised me..Elite should allow it...Breathn”

  6. #16
    Senior Member Forked Horn DssBB's Avatar
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    If you were to measure the served bundle of 24 stand 452X and 24 stand 8190 there would only be about .005" in diameter difference. The 24 stand bundle of 452X served with .014" Halo is approx .110" dia and 24 stands of 8190 served with the same .014" Halo would be .105" dia. That size could also slightly increase or decrease depending on how tight the bundle was served. The 8190 is rock solid material and as Breathin mentioned, 24 stands holds like a rock.
    In all reality, a good set of strings regardless of being made from 24 stand 8190 or 26 strand 8190 comes down to who and how they were made.

    The following is right off BCY's website.

    Question: If I reduce the number of strands to improve arrow speed, should I be concerned that the strength of the bow string is reduced and therefore dangerous?
    Answer: With almost all modern materials used in the manufacture of bowstrings, the strength is well in excess of the maximum tension applied to the string. Consider this - A popular number of strands for Formula 8125 material is 18. The breaking strength of a single strand of Formula 8125 exceeds 90 lbs. Using 90 lbs as the criteria; the total strength of 18 strands is over 1600 lbs. Of course when set up on a bow, the strands are split at the loops and a static load test shows that approximately 40% of the strength is lost at this point. This still leaves a breaking strength of close to 1000 lbs.

    It has been calculated that on a high poundage bow, say 75 - 80 lbs, it is possible to generate approximately 200 lbs total tension while drawing. Compare this to the breaking strength over 1000 lbs mentioned above and there is at least a 5 - 1 safety factor.

    Reducing the number of strands is normally ratioed to the draw weight of the bow, therefore on lower poundage bows, the 5 - 1 safety factor will remain or perhaps increase.

    With the newer, smaller diameter materials like 452X and Trophy, the single strand breaking strength is less than 100 lbs but many more strands are used so at least a 5 - 1 safety factor is maintained.

    Basically, using the manufacturers recommended number of strands x the breaking strength of the string, will assure you have a string with much more than adequate strength, and if you decide to drop a couple of strands to increase speed, the strength of the finished string will still exceed the maximum poundage generated by the bow.
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  7. #17
    Moderator Stag Maybee-R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DssBB View Post
    If you were to measure the served bundle of 24 stand 452X and 24 stand 8190 there would only be about .005" in diameter difference. The 24 stand bundle of 452X served with .014" Halo is approx .110" dia and 24 stands of 8190 served with the same .014" Halo would be .105" dia. That size could also slightly increase or decrease depending on how tight the bundle was served. The 8190 is rock solid material and as Breathin mentioned, 24 stands holds like a rock.
    In all reality, a good set of strings regardless of being made from 24 stand 8190 or 26 strand 8190 comes down to who and how they were made.

    The following is right off BCY's website.

    Question: If I reduce the number of strands to improve arrow speed, should I be concerned that the strength of the bow string is reduced and therefore dangerous?
    Answer: With almost all modern materials used in the manufacture of bowstrings, the strength is well in excess of the maximum tension applied to the string. Consider this - A popular number of strands for Formula 8125 material is 18. The breaking strength of a single strand of Formula 8125 exceeds 90 lbs. Using 90 lbs as the criteria; the total strength of 18 strands is over 1600 lbs. Of course when set up on a bow, the strands are split at the loops and a static load test shows that approximately 40% of the strength is lost at this point. This still leaves a breaking strength of close to 1000 lbs.

    It has been calculated that on a high poundage bow, say 75 - 80 lbs, it is possible to generate approximately 200 lbs total tension while drawing. Compare this to the breaking strength over 1000 lbs mentioned above and there is at least a 5 - 1 safety factor.

    Reducing the number of strands is normally ratioed to the draw weight of the bow, therefore on lower poundage bows, the 5 - 1 safety factor will remain or perhaps increase.

    With the newer, smaller diameter materials like 452X and Trophy, the single strand breaking strength is less than 100 lbs but many more strands are used so at least a 5 - 1 safety factor is maintained.

    Basically, using the manufacturers recommended number of strands x the breaking strength of the string, will assure you have a string with much more than adequate strength, and if you decide to drop a couple of strands to increase speed, the strength of the finished string will still exceed the maximum poundage generated by the bow.
    I agree but has anyone done testing on what happens on the shot? When things come to a screaming stop. I wonder if there is anymore load on those end loops. another thing I think thats being over looked is the fit in the cams groves. Then the weight of the strand count will also effect speeds. (See speed nocks)
    No ifs and or buts Just maybee.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Four Point eview326's Avatar
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    Finished diameter of the strings will also affect draw length/weight/letoff as well.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Forked Horn DssBB's Avatar
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    With regards to finished diameters of the strings as well as weight, the variance in the wax content of the stands or the color combo used (flo colors vs black white or natural) will be a contributing factors in the finished strings. Different string builders finish their end loops differently or prefer to use certain serving materials on the end loops and again it will have slightly different effects. Some builders may serve their end servings on the string not as tight as on the cables to minimize peep rotation, yet again their will be slight differences in how the string fits the cam grooves.
    If Elite is going to expand their warranty restrictions to allow alternative products such as BCY 8190, Asto or SX2 to used as string material they also need to allow for and specify some variance or tolerance in the strand count and served bundle sizes based on the contributing factors yet allowing string builders some flexibility in producing quality safe string sets.
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  10. #20
    Respected Member Ten Point Stag hartofthethumb's Avatar
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    My take on this is that the 24 strands of 452x is slightly large for the track, and 24 strands of 8190, being only a few thousandths smaller finished with the same halo serving, is much better. My personal bows, Elite or non Elite, will be sporting 24 strands of 8190 from here on. If that kills my warranty, then so be it. I will advise anyone I make strings for of the rules set by Elite, but I will run 24 strands on my stuff...

    Thats about all I have to add to this...

    Well, one more thing.... Way back when elite released there tuning vid, they said that .100" was the goal for diameter, now saying that between .100" and .110" is the range. 24 strands of 452x is usually about .105-.107" for me depending on colors, and 24 strands of 8190 with the same servings are coming in just a fuzz(.001-.002") under the .100" mark.

    I would ask that Elite re-evaluate their standards on this and allow 24 strands of 8190... Even if they think this is too small, I don't believe there is danger of it hurting the bow in anyway.

    Pete, if you see this, shoot me some colors you like and info on your personal bow, and I will send you a set at 24 strands of 8190, I promise you will love it!!
    Smile!

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